Comments on: Uri Avnery press release on the detention of New Profile activists http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/ LITERATURE HIP-HOP ISRAEL INDIA LOVE MISCELLANY Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:17:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Avram http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-905 Avram Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:21:49 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-905 I guess we basically agree ... I guess we basically agree …

]]> By: Alex http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-904 Alex Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:15:14 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-904 Avram - I don't think they should be able to help people cheat their way out of army service, but if they want to openly promote refusal, that's fine with me. Avram – I don’t think they should be able to help people cheat their way out of army service, but if they want to openly promote refusal, that’s fine with me.

]]> By: Avram http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-901 Avram Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:38:34 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-901 "One should fight for freedom of speech for both sides" Such a slippery slope ... but to be honest, I didn't say I was opposed to their rights to say what they want, I said: "I don’t think it should be illegal to ‘push’ for a state where not all the citizens need to serve - though I don’t agree with that. However, if they promote & advertise ways to get out of the army, then I think they’ve crossed the lines " The last sentence is why I think the police went after them ... “One should fight for freedom of speech for both sides”

Such a slippery slope … but to be honest, I didn’t say I was opposed to their rights to say what they want, I said:

“I don’t think it should be illegal to ‘push’ for a state where not all the citizens need to serve – though I don’t agree with that. However, if they promote & advertise ways to get out of the army, then I think they’ve crossed the lines ”

The last sentence is why I think the police went after them …

]]> By: Avram http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-900 Avram Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:36:49 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-900 "the fact that right-wing protesters’ rights get violated does not justify the same treatment to Leftists" I didn't say that ... but I just don't like Avnery (or the left wing's stance in general) that 'democracy' is only violated when they think their rights are violated. Thanks for the link though, it's nice to see some organizations care about 'people', not just about 'people with their political leanings'. “the fact that right-wing protesters’ rights get violated does not justify the same treatment to Leftists”

I didn’t say that … but I just don’t like Avnery (or the left wing’s stance in general) that ‘democracy’ is only violated when they think their rights are violated. Thanks for the link though, it’s nice to see some organizations care about ‘people’, not just about ‘people with their political leanings’.

]]> By: noam http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-899 noam Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:20:23 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-899 Avram - the fact that right-wing protesters' rights get violated does not justify the same treatment to Leftists. One should fight for freedom of speech for both sides. I don't know about Avneri, but the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, who is often criticized for being too leftist – people like to call it “the Association for Palestinians' Rights – deals regularly with the arrest of right-wing minors. Here is an example from the disengagement days: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3182883,00.html Avram – the fact that right-wing protesters’ rights get violated does not justify the same treatment to Leftists. One should fight for freedom of speech for both sides. I don’t know about Avneri, but the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, who is often criticized for being too leftist – people like to call it “the Association for Palestinians’ Rights – deals regularly with the arrest of right-wing minors. Here is an example from the disengagement days:

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3182883,00.html

]]> By: Gabriel http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-898 Gabriel Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:09:15 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-898 "While I believe that every Israeli (Jew, Arab, male, female, straight, gay) should serve int he army, I don’t think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army…"As Avram said, it depends on whether they give support to these people or they teach them ways to get around signing up. They are two very different things. "none of us can be certain that s/he can freely express a dissident opinion" is certainly an exaggeration. I think we need to wait and see with this one. “While I believe that every Israeli (Jew, Arab, male, female, straight, gay) should serve int he army, I don’t think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army…”As Avram said, it depends on whether they give support to these people or they teach them ways to get around signing up. They are two very different things.

“none of us can be certain that s/he can freely express a dissident opinion”

is certainly an exaggeration. I think we need to wait and see with this one.

]]> By: Avram http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-897 Avram Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:51:05 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-897 "No idea what Avneri said about anti-disengagement protesters…" You mind calling him and asking? :) "I don’t think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army" I don't think it should be illegal to 'push' for a state where not all the citizens need to serve - though I don't agree with that. However, if they promote & advertise ways to get out of the army, then I think they've crossed the lines ... “No idea what Avneri said about anti-disengagement protesters…”

You mind calling him and asking? :)

“I don’t think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army”

I don’t think it should be illegal to ‘push’ for a state where not all the citizens need to serve – though I don’t agree with that. However, if they promote & advertise ways to get out of the army, then I think they’ve crossed the lines …

]]> By: Alex Stein http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-896 Alex Stein Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:06:52 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-896 No idea what Avneri said about anti-disengagement protesters... While I believe that every Israeli (Jew, Arab, male, female, straight, gay) should serve int he army, I don't think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army... No idea what Avneri said about anti-disengagement protesters…

While I believe that every Israeli (Jew, Arab, male, female, straight, gay) should serve int he army, I don’t think it should be illegal to openly support not serving in the army…

]]> By: Avram http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-895 Avram Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:04:09 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-895 Alex - by any chance do you know if Uri Avnery was at all disturbed when many teenage girls, some below the age of 14, were thrown into jail for protesting the disengagement? Or is he only concerned with 'his' democracy? "Saw this morning that none of us can be certain that s/he can freely express a dissident opinion" They must have missed the disengagement too ... I remember a few months after 9/11, two of my Iraqi friends (one a Jew, the other a Muslim) had their computers confiscated by federal agents. Both, while unhappy 'they' were targeted, got their computers back and nothing whatsoever happened to them. If New Profile have nothing to hide (ie, they don't also encourage and pursue avenues of promoting "Objectors"), then they shouldn't have to worry ... I fully understand there's segments of our population that cannot do the army for varying reasons (be it mental or physical health, religion - well I don't get this one but that's another discussion, security concerns etc) - but if this group was in any way promoting it, then that's wrong. Surely you agree with that Alex? Alex – by any chance do you know if Uri Avnery was at all disturbed when many teenage girls, some below the age of 14, were thrown into jail for protesting the disengagement? Or is he only concerned with ‘his’ democracy?

“Saw this morning that none of us can be certain that s/he can freely express a dissident opinion”

They must have missed the disengagement too …

I remember a few months after 9/11, two of my Iraqi friends (one a Jew, the other a Muslim) had their computers confiscated by federal agents. Both, while unhappy ‘they’ were targeted, got their computers back and nothing whatsoever happened to them.

If New Profile have nothing to hide (ie, they don’t also encourage and pursue avenues of promoting “Objectors”), then they shouldn’t have to worry … I fully understand there’s segments of our population that cannot do the army for varying reasons (be it mental or physical health, religion – well I don’t get this one but that’s another discussion, security concerns etc) – but if this group was in any way promoting it, then that’s wrong. Surely you agree with that Alex?

]]> By: Gert http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/27/uri-avnery-press-release-on-the-detention-of-new-profile-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-892 Gert Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:08:52 +0000 http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=317#comment-892 I got an email from Jewish Voice for Peace about this. Good to see corroboration here... I got an email from Jewish Voice for Peace about this. Good to see corroboration here…

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