Comments on: Integration

By: Hazel

Hazel — Tue, 05 May 2009 13:07:56 +0000

well, you’re all doing really well with your immigration and language skills. Reminds me of how the “German Jews” looked down on the “English Jews” when they came to the UK. All I can say from my personal experience in being a frequent visitor is that if you can speak convincing Ivrit, the prices go down otherwise you are charged Westerner rates. So at a market stall I generally hold out fruit wordlessly with some money and literally act dumb. At a stall in Akko over Pesach we were just charged 3 shekels for something, seemed very cheap.

By: Alex Stein

Alex Stein — Sat, 02 May 2009 09:12:28 +0000

Opher – I think it’s the opposite. If you already have a partner, you often have less of an incentive to go out and create a social life for yourself. And it’s also more likely that you initially spoke English with your partner…

By: Opher Donchin

Opher Donchin — Sat, 02 May 2009 08:22:42 +0000

Many people seem to come here with an Israeli partner already in hand. This seems like one of the easiest ways to make the transition.

By: May

May — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:26:46 +0000

TheLady, I love your comment about how everyone together is looked down on by kibbutznikim. So true!

Alex, I have a phobia about dating/”seducing” in Hebrew. Just typing about it makes me nervous! I’m sure that one day, both of us will seduce the Sabra love of our dreams.

By: TheLady

TheLady — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:52:31 +0000

Ahem. Puzzling, of course.

Puxxling is quite a good word though… Shame to waste it – wonder what we could make it mean?

By: TheLady

TheLady — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:51:17 +0000

Thanks Avram, that illuminates a puxxling observation I made on a recent visit to Israel… People were going on about the French this and the French that, and how they descend in droves each summer, and how annoying they are… And I was thinking “really? The French? Since when have they been the big bad?”. I guess I missed a beat on the immigrationmeter!

By: Alex Stein

Alex Stein — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:34:01 +0000

Avram – I’d agree with that.

By: Avram

Avram — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:31:35 +0000

“In the case of Israel, a simplified geneology of contempt would run roughly like this: the Yekim looked down on the Moroccans, who in turn despised the Yemenis, who in their gentle way looked down on the Kurds, and they all together were looked down on by the Kibbutznikim; then the Russains came along in the seventies (I was one of those) to be convenient punching bags for the long suffering Moroccans and Mizrahim in general.”

It’s all part of the ‘hazing’ routing … It’s sad how much we ‘hurt’ each other but it continues with each ‘immigrant class’ … The Ethiopians (Falushmora) and ‘last trickle of Russians’ were getting it when I made aliyah, and now they’re being replaced slowly but surely by the French.

By: Avram

Avram — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:29:57 +0000

“I have been here long enough to know that the first thing an oleh should do is drastically revise his expectations”

Would you agree that the first thing us olim should do is come with the expectation of ‘making it’ – be it by doing a job we feel ‘over qualified’ for, or by living in a small apartment etc. I feel that many of us come here feeling our lives abroad will continue here and that’s normally ’step 1′ to struggle.

” I have not seen that happen on a significant scale with immigrants from the English-speaking world”

Depends when they make aliyah …

By: LB

LB — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:46:11 +0000

Gabriel – “I have met people who want to go completely Israeli and those people always seem to be doing it out of some sort of superiority.” Precisely. Eventually, the superiority turns into egg-on-face. The balance is extremely important, because otherwise, on either extreme – the superior ones will fail, and are might even go back to their country of birth, and the isolated ones are really just going to make their children feel a little like immigrants themselves.

Over time, language skills do improve, and there is more integration, but particularly in Israel, immigrant communities still exist, Israeli society is a tough one to break into.

I would argue, also, that the English-speaking (or “anglo”) community is arguably the least integrated. This might have to do with the nature of the aliyah – Jews from the FSU or Ethiopia rightly feel they don’t have much of a choice, and so you see recent immigrants in their teens already speaking Hebrew – with each other. I have not seen that happen on a significant scale with immigrants from the English-speaking world.