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	<title>Comments on: Give and Take</title>
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	<description>LITERATURE  HIP-HOP  ISRAEL  INDIA  LOVE  MISCELLANY</description>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-836</guid>
		<description>&quot;The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology. This then is your basis for refusing to accept the term ‘colonisation’? This mythical connection gives him the right to colonise someone else’s land? Go tell it to the UN.&quot;

I don&#039;t give a crap about the UN or even about international law (which is based on the law of the victor, hardly every applied, and conveniently leaves out anything that would make the world powers suffer at all.). Israel needs to make peace with the Palestinians because it is the moral thing to do, because the Palestinians need a state to feel secure for themselves, and because if they ever want to live in any security, they are going to have to make a deal. The problem with your &quot;Yehudi from Brooklyn&quot; line and indeed with the whole &quot;Palestinians have a connection to the land that Jews from America/Britain/etc.. don&#039;t&quot; is that argument will expire if Israel just waits. Fewer and fewer Israelis are now born abroad and if Israel waited, say 60 years, there would be no refugees who had ever been born in Palestine, almost none whose parents were born there, and many whose grandparents and great-grandparents were not born there while settlers and their descendants living on some hill top near Hebron might have been there for 80 years. The settler family would then surely have a vastly greater attachment to that land. Israel can just look at Northern Ireland and see how, after a long time, colonization becomes impossible to undo. The argument to be made is not about who has an attachment to the land, but who has the moral right to the land. Those settlers, whether they come from Brooklyn or are fourth generation Sabras, equally have no right to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology. This then is your basis for refusing to accept the term ‘colonisation’? This mythical connection gives him the right to colonise someone else’s land? Go tell it to the UN.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t give a crap about the UN or even about international law (which is based on the law of the victor, hardly every applied, and conveniently leaves out anything that would make the world powers suffer at all.). Israel needs to make peace with the Palestinians because it is the moral thing to do, because the Palestinians need a state to feel secure for themselves, and because if they ever want to live in any security, they are going to have to make a deal. The problem with your &#8220;Yehudi from Brooklyn&#8221; line and indeed with the whole &#8220;Palestinians have a connection to the land that Jews from America/Britain/etc.. don&#8217;t&#8221; is that argument will expire if Israel just waits. Fewer and fewer Israelis are now born abroad and if Israel waited, say 60 years, there would be no refugees who had ever been born in Palestine, almost none whose parents were born there, and many whose grandparents and great-grandparents were not born there while settlers and their descendants living on some hill top near Hebron might have been there for 80 years. The settler family would then surely have a vastly greater attachment to that land. Israel can just look at Northern Ireland and see how, after a long time, colonization becomes impossible to undo. The argument to be made is not about who has an attachment to the land, but who has the moral right to the land. Those settlers, whether they come from Brooklyn or are fourth generation Sabras, equally have no right to be there.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-826</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-826</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; Wrong. So wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology.&#8221;</i> Wrong. So wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-824</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-824</guid>
		<description>Ooops (again): &#039;can one&#039;, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops (again): &#8216;can one&#8217;, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-823</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-823</guid>
		<description>LB:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;That implies a foreign entity, with no real connection to a place, exploiting that place and its inhabitants.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology. This then is your basis for refusing to accept the term &#039;colonisation&#039;? This mythical connection gives him the right to colonise someone else&#039;s land? Go tell it to the UN.

Homo originated in all likelihood in Africa. Can justify past colonisation of Africa this way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;That implies a foreign entity, with no real connection to a place, exploiting that place and its inhabitants.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The only connection Yehudi from Brooklyn has to Palestine is very old mythology. This then is your basis for refusing to accept the term &#8216;colonisation&#8217;? This mythical connection gives him the right to colonise someone else&#8217;s land? Go tell it to the UN.</p>
<p>Homo originated in all likelihood in Africa. Can justify past colonisation of Africa this way?</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-819</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-819</guid>
		<description>My point still stands - there is no colonialist policy, and there is nothing that to a signed agreement will be enforced, not to mention bring about quiet to the region.

By the way &lt;i&gt;&quot;in time tested and old fashioned Hasbarist methodology&quot;&lt;/i&gt; is where I found that &#039;tone.&#039; But if you didn&#039;t intend it - then I take back what I said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point still stands &#8211; there is no colonialist policy, and there is nothing that to a signed agreement will be enforced, not to mention bring about quiet to the region.</p>
<p>By the way <i>&#8220;in time tested and old fashioned Hasbarist methodology&#8221;</i> is where I found that &#8216;tone.&#8217; But if you didn&#8217;t intend it &#8211; then I take back what I said.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-817</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-817</guid>
		<description>Sheesh, LB, where is the &#039;tone&#039;? None was intended and I still can&#039;t see one rereading my comment.

Well, you could call it something else if you like. &#039;Population Centers&#039; instead of &#039;Settlements&#039; for instance. Doesn&#039;t change much though, does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheesh, LB, where is the &#8216;tone&#8217;? None was intended and I still can&#8217;t see one rereading my comment.</p>
<p>Well, you could call it something else if you like. &#8216;Population Centers&#8217; instead of &#8216;Settlements&#8217; for instance. Doesn&#8217;t change much though, does it?</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-816</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-816</guid>
		<description>First, why the tone? If you start out by insulting people, why do you expect to have an actual discussion?

Second, there is no colonialism here. That implies a foreign entity, with no real connection to a place, exploiting that place and its inhabitants. 

Finally, even if you do see it as colonialism - then it&#039;s a bargaining chip, fine. With that argument, deals have been offered countless times - and have been answered with war every single time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, why the tone? If you start out by insulting people, why do you expect to have an actual discussion?</p>
<p>Second, there is no colonialism here. That implies a foreign entity, with no real connection to a place, exploiting that place and its inhabitants. </p>
<p>Finally, even if you do see it as colonialism &#8211; then it&#8217;s a bargaining chip, fine. With that argument, deals have been offered countless times &#8211; and have been answered with war every single time.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-815</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-815</guid>
		<description>Ooops; &#039;take&#039;, not &#039;tale&#039;. My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops; &#8216;take&#8217;, not &#8216;tale&#8217;. My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Gert</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-814</link>
		<dc:creator>Gert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-814</guid>
		<description>LB:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;A deal with the Palestinians? No. There is simply no evidence that any deal (short of one that will eliminate Israel as a Jewish state) will neutralize the threat of terrorism.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I see. No deal with the Palestinians. Unbridled colonisation and let&#039;s blame anti-Semitism (&#039;The New New New anti-Semitism&quot;) as any opposition to it.
Now LB will, in time tested and old fashioned Hasbarist methodology, tale my comment apart, syllable by syllable, and find fault. Watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;A deal with the Palestinians? No. There is simply no evidence that any deal (short of one that will eliminate Israel as a Jewish state) will neutralize the threat of terrorism.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I see. No deal with the Palestinians. Unbridled colonisation and let&#8217;s blame anti-Semitism (&#8216;The New New New anti-Semitism&#8221;) as any opposition to it.<br />
Now LB will, in time tested and old fashioned Hasbarist methodology, tale my comment apart, syllable by syllable, and find fault. Watch.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2009/04/16/give-and-take/comment-page-1/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=290#comment-813</guid>
		<description>Such a coalition might be easier to form, but an &lt;b&gt;effective&lt;/b&gt; coalition seems highly unlikely. Even the most enthusiastic coalitions of this sort in the past, have not affected a boycott - short of that, nothing seems likely to cripple the Iranian nuclear program.

Furthermore, Israel might end up jeopardizing it&#039;s relationship with the US - but that relationship is not more important than all else. As I&#039;ve said in the past - American money does more harm to Israeli independence (regardless of steps taken with said independence) than almost any other factor.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Israel’s two security priorities should be preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and coming to a deal with the Palestinians.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; Iran - yes, of course. A deal with the Palestinians? No. There is simply no evidence that any deal (short of one that will eliminate Israel as a Jewish state) will neutralize the threat of terrorism. Neutralizing that threat is the priority, and Israel&#039;s primary responsibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a coalition might be easier to form, but an <b>effective</b> coalition seems highly unlikely. Even the most enthusiastic coalitions of this sort in the past, have not affected a boycott &#8211; short of that, nothing seems likely to cripple the Iranian nuclear program.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Israel might end up jeopardizing it&#8217;s relationship with the US &#8211; but that relationship is not more important than all else. As I&#8217;ve said in the past &#8211; American money does more harm to Israeli independence (regardless of steps taken with said independence) than almost any other factor.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Israel’s two security priorities should be preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and coming to a deal with the Palestinians.&#8221;</i> Iran &#8211; yes, of course. A deal with the Palestinians? No. There is simply no evidence that any deal (short of one that will eliminate Israel as a Jewish state) will neutralize the threat of terrorism. Neutralizing that threat is the priority, and Israel&#8217;s primary responsibility.</p>
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