Comments on: Five comments on the situation

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By: Alex

Alex — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:21:08 +0000

I know that there have been ongoing negotiations between the Olmert government and the PA, and that the gaps between them aren’t as big (particularly on the issue of territory) than people have suggested.

By: LB

LB — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:23:34 +0000

SDRay – one more thing. Many keep mentioning a “crippling blockade” (your words) or a “siege,” etc. The fact is that enormous amounts of medical supplies, food, and fuel are brought into Gaza every day (normally – not during the current operation). The fact is, also, the in direct opposition to the agreement in 2005 – Israel has no oversight whatsoever over the people who enter or exit Gaza by way of Rafah (the Egyptian border).

By: Gert

Gert — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:39:11 +0000

Alex:

Assume for a moment that after the Gaza withdrawal the Gazans had started ‘building something’ (the Statelet of Gaza?), do you really and honestly believe Olmert (post Sharon) would have started taking steps to reverse the occupation of the West Bank and create the conditions in which a Palestinian state on sufficient and contiguous territory could be founded?

This you see, this is what I no longer believe.

For what’s in it for Israel? Loss of territory, a hugely complicated and massively controversial evacuation of 275,000 + Jewish settlers and the need to resettle them in Israel proper (which by many accounts they didn’t do very well with the Gaza settlers) for sure. We’ve already come close to conditions for an Israeli Civil War over the issue. Possibly other ‘concessions’ over East J’sem and Golan? Real or perceived security concerns about the new Palestinian state’s intentions vis-à-vis Israel proper (so often reiterated ad nauseam even by the moderates/Zionist left)?

No, then in my opinion the dynamic and power differential favours the status quo with further creeping colonisation of the WB.

Only pressure or force on Israel will change the dynamic. T’was never any different…

By: Alex

Alex — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:16:08 +0000

SDRay – that’s a grand simplification of what I’m saying. The point is we left Gaza in 2005, not in the best circumstances, but it was the first time the Palestinians had actually succeeded in liberating some territory. They had a chance to do something with it, a chance they have refused to take. Even Hamas figures have – at times – acknowledged this.

By: SDRay

SDRay — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:37:59 +0000

“the only hope is that Hamas – like Hizbollah – will think twice before launching unprovoked attacks on the State of Israel.”

“Unprovoked”?

41 years of occupation
Years of crippling blockade
Settlements
Wall
…
and on and on…as long as you find these things so easy to forget how can there be any chance of mutual understanding and peace?

By: Peter D

Peter D — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:43:04 +0000

And it looks like detente with Hizballah isn’t working that well either, is it… God, all this blood spilt for nothing!

By: Gert

Gert — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:33:30 +0000

Peter D wrote:

“The cup overflows now. Israel may be able to buy a few years of calm, but it will pay with disintegration of the society itself. Hate to be the prophet of doom and gloom, but…”

Couldn’t agree more…

By: Peter D

Peter D — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:29:53 +0000

God, what a terrible price we’ll all have to pay for the current insanity in Gaza. From Diplomats: Gaza op causing long-term harm to Israel’s image:
A few days ago, I met a European ambassador stationed in Israel. The man, a great friend of Israel, launched an emotional monologue and spoke from the bottom of his heart.
“Make no mistake,” he said. “I understand why you embarked on the operation in Gaza, and many of my colleagues also understand and even support it, but a few days ago you started to cross red lines.”
The straw that broke the camel’s back for that ambassador was the Red Cross report from Gaza that small children had been found wounded, near the corpses of their mothers, under the ruins of their homes, and other reports of civilians on the verge of dying in places ambulances could not reach because of the fighting.
[...]
“The international organizations in Gaza are talking about 200 dead children,” he said. “I don’t know how to explain these things to myself, never mind to my government,” added the ambassador. “Your action is brutal and you don’t realize how much damage this is causing you in the world. This is not only short term. It’s damage for years. Is this the Israel you want to be?”

Anybody who splits hair how this operation could be justified in one way or another is either a madmen or a blind man.

By: Alex

Alex — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:19:36 +0000

Peter – I tend not to get into fights myself. But I am off the pub now, so watch this space…