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	<title>Comments on: Election Update: The Likud Primaries</title>
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	<description>Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. (I am large, I contain multitudes)</description>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2008/12/12/election-update-the-likud-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Avram - regarding Peres et al - I was only commenting that Israel has a long history of resurrecting politicians. And I&#039;m not sure I agree re: Shamir - he was pushed to Madrid by Bush I&#039;s threats about American aid - in any case, more right wing that Bibi ever will be (with regards to Israeli-Arab issues).

HaBayit Hayehudi is new- this year&#039;s reincarnation of Ichud Leumi (National Union) - basically an amalgam of a bunch of small parties on the right - including Mafdal, Herut, Tekuma (former Mafdal members), etc - the 2 main differences between Bayit Yehudi and Ichud Leumi are - 1. that Ichud Leumi wasn&#039;t really a party - it was an agreement between multiple parties to campaign on the same list, though they maintained separate party institutions, and 2. in theory, Bayit Yehudi is trying not to be simply a religious party and court secular voters, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avram &#8211; regarding Peres et al &#8211; I was only commenting that Israel has a long history of resurrecting politicians. And I&#8217;m not sure I agree re: Shamir &#8211; he was pushed to Madrid by Bush I&#8217;s threats about American aid &#8211; in any case, more right wing that Bibi ever will be (with regards to Israeli-Arab issues).</p>
<p>HaBayit Hayehudi is new- this year&#8217;s reincarnation of Ichud Leumi (National Union) &#8211; basically an amalgam of a bunch of small parties on the right &#8211; including Mafdal, Herut, Tekuma (former Mafdal members), etc &#8211; the 2 main differences between Bayit Yehudi and Ichud Leumi are &#8211; 1. that Ichud Leumi wasn&#8217;t really a party &#8211; it was an agreement between multiple parties to campaign on the same list, though they maintained separate party institutions, and 2. in theory, Bayit Yehudi is trying not to be simply a religious party and court secular voters, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Avram</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2008/12/12/election-update-the-likud-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Avram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=98#comment-187</guid>
		<description>LB - Peres returned to the fold in the mid 1980s in the &#039;tie&#039; with Shamir.

Shamir, as a PM, was not that right wing either.  The foundations of Oslo started under his leadership with the Madrid Conference.

Wrt Ha&#039;Bayit Ha&#039;Yehudi - I haven&#039;t seen much from them, are they not similar to the Mavdal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB &#8211; Peres returned to the fold in the mid 1980s in the &#8216;tie&#8217; with Shamir.</p>
<p>Shamir, as a PM, was not that right wing either.  The foundations of Oslo started under his leadership with the Madrid Conference.</p>
<p>Wrt Ha&#8217;Bayit Ha&#8217;Yehudi &#8211; I haven&#8217;t seen much from them, are they not similar to the Mavdal?</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2008/12/12/election-update-the-likud-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=98#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Israel has always been in favor of resurrecting politicians (Rabin - out in 1977 and back in 1992, Peres, out in 1977 and back in 1996, Sharon - arguably out countless times, back in 2001, Arens, and the list goes on).

Regardless of my own political views, this Likud list is far from &quot;the most right-wing party slate in contemporary Israeli political history.&quot; To begin with, the first Ben Gurion administrations were further right, as was arguably Golda Meir, not to mention Shamir. And today - the most right wing? HaBayit HaYehudi and all its components are all much further eastward on the spectrum.

Finally, I think that only a very small part of Bibi&#039;s strategy has anything to do with giving people the impression of Likud as &quot;a moderate, centre-right party.&quot; People who want a party that is simply moderate will vote Kadima, people who want left - well, they&#039;re out of the picture as far as the Likud&#039;s campaign strategy is concerned. The Likud needs the far-right, with the notable exception of 2006 (due to Sharon) the main reason Likud does not win more seats in any elections is that the real right &quot;siphons off&quot; votes from them. Likud has long been seen as only the lesser of many evils for the true right-wing base, and its only image of being right-wing is that is NOT Labor (or Kadima). Bibi does not want to be seen as overly extreme - so as not to let too many votes slip to Kadima, but not too moderate either, for that will cause the loss of many many votes either to various parties who will not pass the threshold and voters who simply will not vote (a constituency that has been steadily growing over the last decade or so).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel has always been in favor of resurrecting politicians (Rabin &#8211; out in 1977 and back in 1992, Peres, out in 1977 and back in 1996, Sharon &#8211; arguably out countless times, back in 2001, Arens, and the list goes on).</p>
<p>Regardless of my own political views, this Likud list is far from &#8220;the most right-wing party slate in contemporary Israeli political history.&#8221; To begin with, the first Ben Gurion administrations were further right, as was arguably Golda Meir, not to mention Shamir. And today &#8211; the most right wing? HaBayit HaYehudi and all its components are all much further eastward on the spectrum.</p>
<p>Finally, I think that only a very small part of Bibi&#8217;s strategy has anything to do with giving people the impression of Likud as &#8220;a moderate, centre-right party.&#8221; People who want a party that is simply moderate will vote Kadima, people who want left &#8211; well, they&#8217;re out of the picture as far as the Likud&#8217;s campaign strategy is concerned. The Likud needs the far-right, with the notable exception of 2006 (due to Sharon) the main reason Likud does not win more seats in any elections is that the real right &#8220;siphons off&#8221; votes from them. Likud has long been seen as only the lesser of many evils for the true right-wing base, and its only image of being right-wing is that is NOT Labor (or Kadima). Bibi does not want to be seen as overly extreme &#8211; so as not to let too many votes slip to Kadima, but not too moderate either, for that will cause the loss of many many votes either to various parties who will not pass the threshold and voters who simply will not vote (a constituency that has been steadily growing over the last decade or so).</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2008/12/12/election-update-the-likud-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>if we are getting into the spirit of resurrecting older politicians on ten-year cycles, i nominate the frozen bodies of Ben-Gurion and Begin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if we are getting into the spirit of resurrecting older politicians on ten-year cycles, i nominate the frozen bodies of Ben-Gurion and Begin.</p>
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		<title>By: Avram</title>
		<link>http://falsedichotomies.com/2008/12/12/election-update-the-likud-primaries/comment-page-1/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Avram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://falsedichotomies.com/?p=98#comment-180</guid>
		<description>Ma&#039;amin is with an Aleph.

I think the left lost its savior a few years ago when he had a brain aneurysm.  Fact is, Israel is sick and tired of Barak and his lies (&quot;I&#039;ll leave the govt if Winograd puts any blame on Olmert&quot;,&quot;I&#039;ll bolt the government and get new elections&quot;, or his inability to protect Sderot).  And it seems the more Tzippi opens her mouth, the more one realizes she is not really fit to lead this country.

I don&#039;t really like Feiglin that much - but I really don&#039;t like the &#039;democracy&#039; in pushing him down to the 36th slot.  He ran fair n&#039; square, people vote, you live with the vote.  The last person who made the Likud center-right failed to destroy the party and gave us our most corrupt and inept prime minister to date.  Let&#039;s hope Bibi just sticks with his list, which does include some very talented &amp; honest folks (heck, even Meretz applauded Begin&#039;s return to politics) and some fresh blood, and let&#039;s the public decide ... Left, &#039;moderate&#039; (though Kadima don&#039;t really have any ideology), or Right ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ma&#8217;amin is with an Aleph.</p>
<p>I think the left lost its savior a few years ago when he had a brain aneurysm.  Fact is, Israel is sick and tired of Barak and his lies (&#8220;I&#8217;ll leave the govt if Winograd puts any blame on Olmert&#8221;,&#8221;I&#8217;ll bolt the government and get new elections&#8221;, or his inability to protect Sderot).  And it seems the more Tzippi opens her mouth, the more one realizes she is not really fit to lead this country.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really like Feiglin that much &#8211; but I really don&#8217;t like the &#8216;democracy&#8217; in pushing him down to the 36th slot.  He ran fair n&#8217; square, people vote, you live with the vote.  The last person who made the Likud center-right failed to destroy the party and gave us our most corrupt and inept prime minister to date.  Let&#8217;s hope Bibi just sticks with his list, which does include some very talented &amp; honest folks (heck, even Meretz applauded Begin&#8217;s return to politics) and some fresh blood, and let&#8217;s the public decide &#8230; Left, &#8216;moderate&#8217; (though Kadima don&#8217;t really have any ideology), or Right &#8230;</p>
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